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- You can only compete against the people around you, not competitors of the past and future. History books don't add caveats about competitors, technology, or nutrition (though they are slowly adding information about doping, knocking Merckx right on off that pedestal). In the long run, it's the numbers that matter more than anything else.
I strongly suspect that this season Pogačar will do something nobody else has: win 4 monuments, 2 grand tours, and the world championship. That's better (in terms of big races) than Valverde did in his entire career, and he's #10 on this list! Let's see if he actually carries it out.
Rather than speculation, here's a different statistic that stands out. Pogačar has already bested Merckx, de Vlaeminck, and all the rest by standing on the podium of 11 consecutive monuments, and has been on the podium for the last 14 that he finished. Nobody else gets close to that record.
People comparing eras in any sport are going to fail miserably because everything changes, all the time. What it boils down to is that we get to watch an amazing cyclist, and I really hope that we get many more years of watching him race.
- I enjoyed your list of the greatest cyclist. There's a obvious name missing from the list and maybe for an obvious reason. Should people be excluded because they admitted to doping, but never tested positive? I don't have an answer, but I'm curious what other people think. Merckx 3 positive tests for banned substances which resulted in bans, Hinault refused to submit to a urine test that resulted in a ban, Coppi admitted to using amphetamines, Anquetil consistently refuse urinalysis when requested leading to disqualifications, Indurain tested positive for salbutamol, Kelly tested positive for banned substances twice resulting in bans, Bartali - drug test what's that, Valverde two-year global doping ban.
- no cause merckx competed vs legitemely amateurs its easy to aknowledge that Pogacar achievements are so much better, just the way it is, its not even a debate. Pogacar clears Merckx easily in all honesty and its not particular close even. Pogacar is the greatest already.
- Sorry but if Merckx were born today or Tadej back then, they wouldn’t have been or developed the same way so it’s a totally pointless way to argue.
I beat every single Olympic performance pre 1900 in almost every cycling or running event, as do an enormous number of other amateurs who would never make it to pro level without upping their game.
The average elite runner now trains about double what their equivalent did 40 years ago.
Do you know how many people have now run a 4 minute mile or sub 10 100m or sub 2 ‘10 marathon without any specialised equipment, things almost unheard of in his day. And yet, how many can beat Merckx hour record on his bike today? As far as I found, only 1 person ever succeeded on an « equivalent » bike.
- Merckx did it against others like him, just as Tadej now, you cannot compare otherwise.
Merckx cut his pro career short. Had certain things not happened, he could have gone on for a lot longer.
It’s always easier for the newcomers to beat old records as they have a target to aim for and can organise their career with that in mind. The perfect example is Cavendish, going through whatever it takes to hang on long enough to beat that tdf stage record.
BUT, when you consider how many years it took him compared to Merckx, how many others Merckx got in other GTs and the fact Merckx won every kind of stage from climbing to sprinting, Cavendish’ is lucky that when it suits people, they do actually only consider raw numbers.
- This is only true if you believe the single metric for greatness is career totals. A similar debate has taken place in golf; some say Jack for his totals, some say Tiger for his peak level. For me the GOAT is the one who reached the highest level of performance and sustained it over a long enough time to essentially redefine the sport. Merckx did so in his day, but Pog has done so against even deeper fields with more specialized competitors. Even if he never wins another race, he has done enough for me to rate him #1.
- With that aero position, Indurain would struggle to beat Felix Gall in an ITT now
- I also think Pogacar clears Merckx. Its simply 100x harder to win today in this hyper-specialized era were in now than Merckx days. So that Pogacar already out done merckx best seasons and won what Pogacar has already won i dont even think its a contest anymore and that Pogacar is clear nr 1.
Also in which fashion he wins matters his wins in WC 90km solo i will never forget that and many of his wins are incredible not only that he can win so vast different races but also the way he does it and its simply so much harder than the era merckx rode that Pogacar is already clearly already nr 1 indeed and pretty comfortable too already in my opinion.
- It seems to me from Jonas and his wife comment that Jonas isnt as devoted to cycling and like bike racing as much as he needs to anymore to keep up and that he doesnt really go out of his way to race when he dont need to. Just my impression and if so its not a good sign imo.
- Yes, as of today, Tadej is better than Merckx was at any given year based on the level of competition. He has one more GT this year and four more years until he retires. If we are counting palmares, then it's Merckx, but this is just one variable. If Merckx were racing today even with current nutrition he may not even be able to win a grand tour, speculative sure, but probably true.
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