Tadej Pogacar explodes Tour de France with victory on stage 4 after dropping Jonas Vingegaard and Remco Evenepoel at Col du Galibier

Who knows, but the rules allow for the use of various medications for a medical indication under the supervision of a physician...

If ypu think that Visma- the team that wanted to have a control center in a van- did not take advantage of every single loophole, grey area and dodgy idea to get a man with a hole in his lung in April ready to race against the fittest men in the world in July, then you also probably believe that Armstrong beat Pantani on Mt Ventoux because of his increased pedal cadence...

You're the one who claimed that Jonas and Visma used an 'extensive' number of TUE's to prepare for this Tour, and I was just curious how you knew that.

I know that because in the Universe that we inhabit NO MAN can recover from a PUNCTURED LUNG to compete with the best cyclist in the world on the top of the Galibier without chemical assistance...

Believing otherwise is naive and wilfully ignorant given what we know about human athletic performance...

Jonas is performing at an impossible level and is not believable... Tadej dropped some of the finest cyclists in the world and the ONLY man who could stay with him had a punctured lung 10 weeks ago?

Ridiculous...

I'm with you. Not believable.

The guy already recovered from a broken femur in 2017 to win the Tour twice. Look at every other pro who broke their femur and see how they did. That's much more astounding.
Also, Chris Horner (who had a punctured lung) did call that this was possible.

Firstly, as long as they are legal, for me they can use all the TUE’s they get granted in such a situation (which people would do well to think a bit more about).

Secondly, if they alone were responsible for such “stellar” performance, you can bet your house or kids that every competitor would start falling over every month to fake serious injuries in order to get in line for the handouts.

The question now remains, how much would these TUE’s help a top fit top rider who doesn’t have injuries and how to manipulate the doses to pass tests.

Whatever the possibilities, the end results are always a difference of just a handful of minutes after 80 hours over 3 weeks over supposedly more clean riders (according to who you ask) so none of these aids are really miraculous products, we’re talking 0.1% differences.

Try doing the same ride under the same conditions 10 times in a row over a week or two and see the variation in your times and you’ll understand there are unknown natural factors at play in your body that have a far greater influence on your performance than any external aid.

The whole point of a TUE is to allow the rider to explain away any positive tests- Ask Froome how effective that can be...

Second, these men are all the best cyclists in the world... Even if the TUE allowed the ruder to improve by 3-5% that is the difference between podium and top 10...

Finally, all of your rhetorical gymnastics is impressive and appreciated in an Olympic year!

But as I said, in the Universe we live in there is NO WAY a man who blew a hole in his lung and broken ribs and collarbone in APRIL can be competitive against the finest cyclists who have been training without interruption for MONTHS in July...

It's not possible, and nothing Jonas is doing is believable.

If his team admitted to using TUEs to speed up his recovery, I world respect them more.

What Jonas is doing is not normal and not believable.

Yes, it's possible to blow a hole in your lung and be a Domestique like Horner was, hanging on for dear life and 30 mins down on GC who is expected to deliver a focused effort for 5-10k and then fall back and finish in the grupetto.

That's Completely reasonable

It's NOT POSSIBLE to blow a hole in your lung and be able to respond to an attack that drops ALL your teammates, the MJ, multiple World Champions, and multiple GT winners...

But not YOU! Not the man who was flat on his back in a hospital for 3 weeks! Not a man who just got back on his TT bike in June without pain! Nope! Jonas is rhe ONLY MAN who can live with the attack of a man on his very best form on top of an HC climb at the hardest bike race in the world against the fittest athletes in the world???

Really? You expect me to believe that foolishness???

Jonas is as believable as Pantani on Oropa or Armstrong on Ventoux...

You are trying to distract from the utterly ridiculous level of Jonas' totally unbelievable performance...

I never said that Pogi was clean, but he is BELIEVABLE. Man broke his wrist last year, missed a week or so of training and got SMASHED in the Tour...

Believable...

Jonas broke ribs AND a collarbone AND blew a hole in his lung, missed a MONTH of pro-level training and is riding with a pace that dropped the entire Tour??

Not believable... As I said, for me Jonas is the same as Pantani on Oropa or Alpe d'Huez or Armstrong on Ventoux....

Obviously chemically enhanced...

You keep stating all these things are impossible but you seem to have very little to back it up by way of literature or qualified medical statements. I have over and again posted official statements from the medical world that clearly states FULL recovery from lung punctures takes 6-8 weeks in normal cases, that is the average, not the fastest (did you at any point even try googling this or do you actually refuse to admit what anyone can find out for themselves very easily?).

High level athletes by and large recover from damage far faster than the average person, even when they do not have access to the most advanced recovery procedures that well paid pros get afforded, already their body’s adaptation to digesting the huge number of calories needed for repair and the far better than average immune system helps speed this up.

I hope I don’t have to repeat my personal experience with lung punctures here again but if needed I can provide medical proof of hospitalisation plus race results 2 months later with comparison to pre-accident to show that tgat is enough to return to pre-accident form, and I did tgat without a goal or fixation on training.

It doesn’t matter the level you need to get to, it’s the level you were at that is determinant plus the time completely out of action which in his case was actually just 12 days!

Besides, if it were do obviously impossible, EVERYONE, including the entourage would be starting to call him out. There doesn’t seem to be a growing movement here? No respectable authority within or outside the cycling world seems to be ridiculing his attempt to sell us this.

Stop it.

Your blind loyalty to Jonas and willingness to believe in fairy tales is silly... But also adorable and very entertaining!

For sure, you can fully recover from a punctured lung in 6-8 weeks.... To be able to go grocery shopping and lift your babies and climb a flight of steps without pain or discomfort. Absolutely true...

Can you recover from a punctured lung in 6-8 weeks to be the ONLY MAN who can stay with the best rider in the world on an Hors Category climb at the Tour de France?

Also yes... With some sort of chemical enhancement to make up for the WEEKS of lost training time while you were in the ICU in Spain, the hospital in Denmark, and the times when your life was no longer in danger, but you could not train at a high level

To believe anything else is just not using your common sense. Other athletes have had serious injuries and were not at their normal level for MONTHS, even if they recovered to a point where it would be fine for us mortal, non professional athletes...

But I'm sorry... Tadej lights it up and Remco, Primoz, Landa all detonate... These are dedicated professionals who have won stages and jerseys and Olympic gold medals and world championships and Grand Tours and they can't stay with Tadej...

And you want me to believe and THE ONLY MAN WHO CAN STAY WITH HIM is rhe guy who was in intensive care for 2 weeks in APRIL???

Do you also believe that Bilharzia made Froome a champion, that increased pedal cadence was the secret to Armstrong's climbing and that Wiggins knew nothing about the SKY Jiffy bags???

You can continue to delude yourself sir... I am going to believe what my eyes see and logic...

Horner was a DOPER so he'd know more about doping than winning with a punctured lung.

See? Now your feelings are hurt and you are looking for scapegoats and other things to complain about because not even you can possibly justify how your guy can go from the ICU to 8 sec down on The Galibier to the best rider in the world...

I get it... you're disappointed.

As I said, I am not claiming that anyone in this peloton is 100% clean.

I am stating that Jonas is insulting my intelligence if he expects me to believe that he got to this level in 4 weeks of training using pan y aqua.

My best guess? The team used his medical condition to justify using every TUE available to allow him to legally take as many performance enhancers as they could to get him from barely able to walk in April to being able to live with a pace on a HC climb into a headwind that destroyed men who were training for months in July...

You are struggling to accept that simple fact and that's okay...

You are a die-hard Jonas supporter and I respect your single minded obsession to believe that your guy is good and uniquely talented in ways impossible for any other man, and that every other guy is bad...


It's unfortunate that you value support over logic and common sense, but I respect your choices...


I hope that you enjoy the rest of the Tour! Let's see what other miracles Jonas can do!!

Cheers!

Wow!! Three separate responses in 10 minutes? I am honoured!

Maximum respect to your commitment to supporting Jonas in spite of all logic, historic precedent and observable reality... I wish nothing but the best for you and for Jonas the Miracle worker Anchovy!

As I said, enjoy the rest of the Tour- If we are lucky, Jonas can pull out another completely believable 7watt/kg ITT performance this week!

Keep believing in Miracles! :-)