"I never want to be leader in a Grand Tour again!" - Visma's All-In documentary sheds new light on Vuelta infighting between Kuss, Vingegaard & Roglic
CyclingThursday, 14 March 2024 at 15:59
Jumbo-Visma completed their historic Grand Tour hat-trick at the 2023 Vuelta a Espana as Sepp Kuss secured the biggest win of his career. This wasn't without controversy however.
Prior to the race, Primoz Roglic was the expected leader of the team although a late addition of Jonas Vingegaard to the lineup meant Visma had a two-pronged attack in the fight for the Red Jersey. When Kuss worked his way into the breakaway on stage 6 though, taking the win and moving into the overall lead of the race two stages later, the team was thrown into chaos as three riders all considered themselves the leader. In the new, Amazon Prime documentary about Jumbo-Visma's 2023, dropping on March 16th, a whole new light is shone on the situation.
"I have been honest. I said I wanted to win. And that meant I would attack," says Jonas Vingegaard in an emergency team meeting after Remco Evenepoel's implosion on the Tourmalet meant the three Visma riders had the podium for themselves.
With Evenepoel gone from the GC fight and the likes of Juan Ayuso and Enric Mas some distance away, Kuss suddenly found himself only being attacked by his teammates. The two men he had selflessly sacrificed for so many times over the years. "I was confused. This was rivalry and politics going over my head," Kuss recalls in the documentary, noting how Mikel Landa even offered to be a domestique for him if Roglic and Vingegaard continued to attack. "I'm very grateful to Mikel. He can drink beer at my expense for the rest of his life."
Even in the Visma team car things were getting tense. "Is this what we agreed?" sports director Grischa Niermann questions before finally a cease-fire is demanded and it's agreed that the American will lead the team in the final stages. "We are not attacking each other anymore," Merijn Zeeman says to bring the matter to a conclusion.
Whilst victory did eventually go to Kuss and he took his first Grand Tour win of his career, there were mixed emotions for him afterwards. "Never again in my life," he says frustratedly. "I never want to be leader in a Grand Tour again!"
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- Dude has a record of crashing every Giroabstractengineer09-05-2025
- That was an unfortunate crash by Mikel Landa. Hopefully he's not seriously injured, and can recover in time to help out Remco at the TDF.
santiagobenites09-05-2025 - Yep, and considering neither is really built for climbing, it speaks volumes. Only name I can see who has a climbers build is KN. An observation maybe someone will find interesting or have more info on, compared to men, the strong lady climbers are heavier, often the equivalent of their male versions for same height. Is it because the girls try to build muscle to climb better or the boys try to lose weight for that or both, seems paradoxical.Mistermaumau09-05-2025
- His injury problems were known to his past team who still tried to re-sign him, who’s fault, especially if the medical team fails to resolve problems? Not sure it’s offered or possible but teams are free to consider insurance or contract clauses in order to mitigate financial risks.Mistermaumau09-05-2025
- Lafay is the classic example of you get a great TDF stage win, get a lucrative contract and then you dont perform ever again, due to partying or injuries.abstractengineer09-05-2025
- I think it’s pretty weird under the circumstances and won’t be surprised if one day we discover some unmentioned detail that triggered this. In the meantime, hope he finds himself elsewhere.Mistermaumau08-05-2025
- Reusser is amazing too. More than just a TT specialist.mobk08-05-2025
- Tough to beat her on the long climbs if she has a team that will bring her fresh to the bottom of the climbsmobk08-05-2025
- Er, building up a 20 second gap in less than a km against the best is not exactly nothing, must have been at least 10% faster. Peletons also reel in breakaways but if they don’t manage BEFORE the end the reeling in doesn’t really mean much does it. She did exactly the right think, destroyed the others’ chances of catching her with a massive attack.Mistermaumau08-05-2025
- Demi must be so happy to now be on a team that works for her, and not against her. I think that if she and the team get their tactics dialed in, she could prove to be unstoppable this year.santiagobenites08-05-2025
Sepp was the common element in all Jumbo Visma’s tour victories. He was the soul of the team - the true definition of their slogan, Winnen”. Sepp is the “secret sauce” of great teamwork, personal warmth and the balance between killer instinct and love of team and teammates. He certainly deserved the win (and earned it) at the Vuelta. Primoz never got it and, as much as I respect his cycling greatness, was not a great teammate. He did imbue in the team a toughness in training, shared by Sepp, which ignited their rise to greatness but never really got with the program when he wasn’t in the spotlight on the top step.
You are right about much of this but as I said about documentaries not reflecting the whole story, I would say that saying Roglic didn’t respect the team if he wasn’t in the spotlight doesn’t represent or respect who he is, he certainly wasn’t one to demand all attention should be on him. He was given a role of leader and did that job as he could which was made more difficult by confusion created by others. Every actor in this situation had his part of responsibility, problem and a price to pay. There was no win-win-win possibility.
In the end it is only natural he left. Someone of his capabilities and success cannot stop a career with the TdF palmares he had, it is obvious he would regret not trying again the rest of his life. At J-V with JV his only opportunity would have been if JV would abandon, I don’t think anyone in his shoes would have stayed for the case that happened.
Haven’t seen this years documentary.
That's only because Roglic isn't very outgoing. He certainly wanted all the attention as a leader in terms of team focus.
*Also, he's never winning anything but possibly another Vuelta. He's not good enough to win without a superteam(nothing wrong with that) which is similar to Geraint Thomas. Most people need great teams to win, and he's one of those riders.
Can’t put GT on his level, sorry.
Listen, he was chosen and paid to be leader and you’re criticising him for doing his job?
JV was chosen as his future replacement (Sepp could have asked if interested) but developed faster than expected (and was thrown into the deep end when PR crashed) which precipitated the changes.
He worked damn hard as a leader so had every right to be demanding of assistants and his JOB was to get results from the basis laid by the team. Looking at his palmares he’s been one of the most successful team leaders for quite a while. He’s not a classics rider but few have his Stage race palmares even though he’s been unlucky having to abandon some of the most important ones due to being brought down by others. Obviously missing a TdF is a stain on his record even though he narrowly missed it but in compensation he has also won EC, WC and Olympics.
Now, you can have your opinion of him but then apply your argument to someone else, Tadej. No EC, no WC, no Olympics, no GT other than TdF, never did 2 GTs in a year, we’ll see how he resists now but if you ask me, it’s interesting that he’s chosen THIS year to try that.
But crucially, yes he may be a « nicer, more outwardly, whatever » guy but, is he any different to Roglic as a leader? All the attention is on him, no teammates ever take the initiative to go past, he’s never playing domestique to anyone like MvdP does for JP or WVA does for everyone or Sepp does for who he’s told, the undisputed one and only number one leader so why does Roglic get under your skin other than you think SK got a bad deal?
By the way, do you think SK understands Slovenian?
The confusion was Sebb was the leader and had been instrumental in all Primoz’s GT wins. You don’t attack the leader on your own team. I love Primoz but on the ‘23 Vuelta he was in the wrong. The team knew it from Owner to swaniers. The peloton was with Sebb 100. Primoz was wrong this time.
There was no confusion initially, Sepp was in front but as a lieutenant for either of the two official leaders, PR and JV.
The day before Angliru there was a discussion, PR as leader said he wanted to go for the win so would attack and it was accepted, he showed he was stronger, Sepp was suffering and limited the damage through Landa (just adding that to show and explain that if the strongest is supposed to be allowed to win, it was not sure Sepp would), JV also showed his strength (and despite it always being claimed they win through team help (fair enough) when it comes to the showdown, they were still stronger without the team than Sepp with team help (not saying that to denigrate his performance).
It was only the next day that management reworked their strategy, they are completely to blame, stop putting this on Roglic, he respected his hierarchy.
Can you imagine Lance being told to work for a Lieutenant, let’s say someone like Landis just to stir up more shit ;-) who’d gotten ahead of him in the GC in a breakaway?
Unfortunately these kinds of documents, though they are often great to watch, don’t really give a very objective view of situations. The editing and choices to render it all emotional mean a lot of what is said goes missing and someone is choosing on which things to put emphasis.
The whole thing was a mess and it was impossible to make the right or logical choice, especially in advance. It also isn’t a situation many teams ever find themselves in, dealing with such a situation between 2 riders is one thing but 3, all with good reason to be chosen?? I’m surprised things ended up going so well in the end.
I’ll be watching to see how the beginning of the situation is presented, where Kuss’ break first raises the questions of who should be working for who. Not sure they spoke much about it at that moment and that was probably why the confusion started. None of the three probably knew anymore what was expected of them at that moment because things mostly stayed unsaid.
Anyway, it’s all Remco’s fault ;-) should concentrate on his kind of races for a while instead of creating chaos in stage races :-)
You've gotta love Mikel Landa!
Since the documentary is only released on Saturday for everyone else, I will say that I hope the right context to Jonas' comment about winning is given. Sepp himself said after stage 13 (the one where Remco imploded) that Jonas had asked him permission to go for the stage win. In this article, it can be misconstrued as Jonas wanting to go for the overall win of the Vuelta, but we will see for ourselves on Saturday.
It was pretty bad how that went down, disgraceful even, Roglic know he had it GREAT at Visma now gone I just don't think he'll be as good, all his wins were team orientated. Vingegard similar, yes he's getting better and stronger for the lone longer attacks.. Kuss could lead a team alone, Visma are VERY lucky to have him, mentally and physically I'll tell you that!
Huh, that’s a very one-sided view of all that’s happened. JV taking close to 2 minutes on TP in a time trial is not a team orientated result. Yes they are a fantastic team and the leaders have it « easy » being able to rely on such helpers but all these riders are very capable by themselves too. Please also explain why they are LUCKY to have Sepp, did they win him in a lottery? I think they showed their respect to him by organising his Vuelta win, other teams might not have chosen the same course. He may be good enough to win grand tours but that doesn’t make him a leader type and by his own admission, he doesn’t seem to want that role. There is a difference between leading when things are working well and being a leader when things aren’t, I’m not sure Sepp would be a great leader when things aren’t going well. Nothing disrespectful but situation analysis cannot be based on who you like or not.
To put it another way, they are mutually « lucky ».
He’s signed with them until 2027 and been there since 2017, doesn’t do much outside the grand tours, gets a great salary as a domestique (ok, for me he’s earned the title superdomestique) and has the job that fits his character. Sounds like he’s pretty happy and no-one has any worries about another team snatching him up. You can equally say J-V are very lucky to have WVA or JV but none of this comes down to luck, it’s a matter of knowing how to get, keep and motivate your riders and J-V have shown (apart from the Vuelta incident) they do that well. Roglic’s transfer was a win-win for both sides AND for cycling. Nice of T. Martin to jump into our debate just in time to confirm he wasn’t the selfish profiteer some imagine.