Roger de Vlaeminck is a winner of Paris-Roubaix four times, Milano-Sanremo three, with Liège-Bastogne-Liège and Tour of Flanders also in an enviable palmarès. Comparing cyclists of different generations is always a hard task, but the Belgian legend believes that in his prime he would not be dropped by the current
Tadej Pogacar.
"Eddy Merckx was on another level, huh? There's absolutely no comparison between Pogacar and Merckx. Pogacar is a fantastic rider, and the Strade Bianche is a tough race, but not a legendary one, huh. He broke away ninety kilometers from the finish, and nobody could follow. I guarantee you: if I had been on his wheel, he would never have dropped me in my prime," de Vlaeminck said in words to Wielerrevue. "Never in his life! Just like Francesco Moser and Beppe Saronni couldn't either."
The new 76-year old is one of cycling's greatest ever figures, with results that stand the test of time. Over the past year some riders have emerged such as Pogacar or Mathieu van der Poel, as figures who are headlining a generation whose level is higher and higher. Pogacar, having won the Tour de France, Tour of Flanders and virtually dominating every race that he takes part in, reminisces the times of De Vlaeminck where a few riders could topple over the competition in almost every terrain. The Slovenian's ability is often compared to that of Merckx or other legends of the sport including De Vlaeminck.
"Pogacar is heading to the Giro now, but in Italy, there aren't any top riders at the moment. You have Filippo Ganna who is decent in time trials, but he's not an absolute top rider. Can someone explain to me why there aren't more great riders in Italy?" he questions. The
UAE Team Emirates rider is the absolute favourite for the upcoming Corsa Rosa, where he will make his debut and hopes to add a pink jersey to his still relatively young career.
However, despite his achievements, De Vlaeminck does not spare some rough words: "Pogacar is a top rider and by far the best in the world, with Mathieu van der Poel a close second. Unfortunately, Mathieu can't keep up in the mountains. That would have been an exciting duel. But Pogacar isn't even half the rider Merckx was."
"If Merckx were to race in the same Giro as Pogacar, Pogačar would be five minutes behind in the general classification."
Merckx was also a sketchy doper.
As was at least one of the DV, treated for amphetamine dependance. Not the one Pogi can’t beat but the one MVDP can’t come up against even though he’s practically got the palmarès of both DVs combined and, without needing amphetamines or dirty tricks to overcome his rivals.
This didn't age well. Pogacar would crush him just like he did to Jonas!
Undoubtedly Merckx was way more dominant than Pogacar, here's why:
He is to date the only rider to have won all major jerseys at the same Tour de France, missing only the combativity award, which is understandable if you go for the yellow.
If the young rider classification existed in 69, Merckx would have won that too (it exists since 1975).
No one has ever won the green jersey and the yellow in the same tour like Merckx did in 1969. He also managed to win with a margin just shy of 18 minutes. That is 8 more minutes than Pogacar had at the Giro 2024.
He won the Tour 5 times, the Giro 5 times and the Vuelta once. Pogacar has to date onmy 3 grand Tours to his name: 2 Tours de France and 1 Giro.
Merckx also won all 5 Monuments multiple times. Only one of 3 riders to ever win all of them minimum once, Pogacar has not done this yet.
Also Merckx won the points classification of every grand tour. Not one rider to my knowledge has that ever.
Pogacar has pretty bad achievements compared to Merckx. He is similar in performance statistics of being able to perform in almost every terrain (exept pan flat sprints agains the best, which even Merckx was good at). Poga ar also set 0 hour records. Merckx was maddison european champion champion. Pogacar cannot ride trrack, or at least he doesn't, which makes this not even close at all.
Only if Pogacar matches or outshines the results of Merckx can I truly compare these two.
He might be outstanding compared to the rest, but I bet he is no match against Merckx in his prime. Merckx was only 26 when he won all 5 monuments, was world champion for the second time, won the tour for the 3rd time, and the giro for the second.
In no way possible can Pogacar get there in 1 year, he is 25 right now (how would he eg. win world championships twice in one year? Hint: impossible).
Nope. No match, maybe half of tht Merckx was at best. Merckx was not called the "Cannibal" for no reason!!!!
I don't consider the comparison of the two GOAT of generational talents of who is the best. But they are the GOAT of their respective generation.
This conversation feels cringe🤯🤪🤪
Guys, I know it is impossible to convince anyone to change their mind about their favourites or idols or hopes so instead of that, I am posting my disclaimers just so no-one gets me wrong.
1. I am not affiliated to Merckx in any form whatsoever
2. I am no a fan of Merckx
3. I have nothing against Pogaçar
Just trying to look at this from an objective factual point of view considering as much of the comparable as possible.
To sum it up, I believe that if Pogaçar continues at his « current » level for another 3-5 years there will be no more doubt he’s comparable, if he does so 5-7 years then he’ll take Merckx’ place.
Let’s hope nothing stops him.
Agreed
Sour grapes
?
How many worid records in any sport are still held by 70s athletes? 🤔
Maybe none, but there are plenty from the 80s, plenty still standing today after 25, 30 even 35 years and some that might only have been broken because of improvements in material, e.g. would Duplantis really have beaten Bubka with the same poles?
I don’t see Sotomayors’ record being broken in the next decade either unless ANOTHER Bolt of high jumping comes along.
But your question is deviously ambiguous ;-)
Thought this conversion gone to bed... It feels cringe again🤣😅😂😅😅😅🙄🤔😂😂
I was out for a few days, sorry I’m back :-)
Eddy is probably the only great that would squash Pogi 90% of the time. Roger is forgetting that Pogi is still developing. He'd likely trade wins as the riders behind Eddy. But Roger is leaving out the fact that Pogi isn't focused solely on classics and he's that good anyway.
I had to agree
Also undoubtedly Mercx was on the juice as were all at the time.
I remember my father's comment that Rod Laver would have beaten Federer ha he would not have taken a set. It's different times just let's accept they were both champions of their era. This is just an old man talking with a still inflated ego
Agreed
Pog doesn't care- he is enjoying life one day at a time. Roger D should try it sometime, haha.
Sure. Sure. Whatever
In case anyone hasn't noticed, I don't recall Pog saying he was better than Roger de Vlaeminck in the first place. I don't ever hear today's riders saying they are better than past riders, so don't also see why past riders feel the need to put down currant riders by saying this. We will never ever know who was the best of the best, so why not just leave it as, they were the best for their time, and Pog is undoubtedly the best at present, bar none.
True, but to stay fair, people ask the older generation to comment on today, very few ever ask the younger to give their thoughts on the past. In fact, I’d be willing to bet if you asked the peleton who DV was at least a third wouldn’t have a clue, just like if you asked them who Ceaucescu or Nixon, Billie Jean or Rosa parks was, the youngest generation is never very good at putting things in perspective.
If you think that most people do not know who DV was, at least write his name full out.
This comment section feels cringe 😂🤐😅🤯🤪
The whole article and thread here is because of him!
It is customary to assume that once a text has referenced something initially, it is ok to abbreviate later for the sake of conciseness.
I am also only addressing my comments to people with enough attention and perspicacity to understand what I say so no, I won’t. People should use their brain when engaging in conversation, not have all the mental work done for them, and if they can’t and they end up being filtered out, so be it.
Thanks
What a BS claim. Absolutely impossible to prove or disprove. And it doesn’t make Roger look bigger it makes him smaller.
News story- “Old man yells at cloud”
Roger de who? Another who thinks he is better than he actually was. What an idiot.
Please show some respect, just look at his palmares. You may not agree with his comments but is so sad when little people make these comments.
I agree have respect. When Pog wins four Paris-Roubaix then we might be able to talk that as good as stuff about him. Great rider and someday he might better Merckx's palmares but untill then, he is undoubtadly the best of this generation and can't be compared with any other.
1000% agreed
What palmeres . Nothing sad about cheats Mercx tested positive fact so doper and as Armstrong proved you can win anything
I don't expect anything from such 'old' former riders. They didn't appreciate today's rider b/c they want to look better. Look at Fabian Cancellara's, look at Tom Boonen's comments about Van der Poel & Van aert. And yet every record obtained by them were obliterated by this 'half' riders.
Yeah sometimes they say stupid things, because people ASK them. Nobody ever asks the current guys to comment on past generations so we never find out the stupid things they’d say. But it’s like with music, none of the present guys would be here if the past ones hadn’t made the sport what it was and wouldn’t be quite as motivated if they’d not set the references.
Had Merckx seen there was someone with 34 stage wins at the TdF at the time, he may have had a reason to continue for a goal after he ran out of them (most likely after being punched in the kidney during his TdF battle with Thevenet.
Had Merckx achieved 30 wins, Cav wouldn’t have come out of retirement several times basically riding for free trying to better Merckx on that one single stat he has a chance to beat.
Really?
2020
Mark Cavendish hints at early retirement after Gent-Wevelgem. October 11, 2020
'That’s perhaps the last race of my career now' says Bahrain McLaren sprinter
He then backtracked but
He couldn’t really find a team that wanted him so he sold himself out to sneaky Lefevre (and since, I still don’t understand why more teams don’t take on ageing riders on bonus based deals) to be allowed to continue.
Yeah ok, so not for free as that would be completely illegal wouldn’t it but when you’re Cavendish and you sign not for a basic but for the minimum required salary that’s as much free as saying this may be my last race is retirement.
Saved by the bell.
Lol
a) he can't possibly know that. It's a different sport now in almost every aspect.
b) I can't either, but still...Pogacar is more than "half" the rider Mercx was. He is competing against deeper, better trained fields than Mercx faced, and is showing the same kind of dominance. If he stays healthy he will have a record that is worthy of GOAT consideration.
I think you underestimate the competition Merckx had who also didn’t have a team with many millions to protect from attacks.
So in a few years he’ll be 3/4 and in many years we may be able to compare, but people were already predicting that and the a certain Jonas came along and a Mathieu and they’re making it very difficult for him to achieve Merckx status even though he had his Jonas and Mathieu too.
Imagine how much more Merckx would have won if he hadn’t tried to do practically EVERY race each season!
Let’s just hope he sticks around long enough for that to happen and that his career doesn’t get cut short by some fanatical lunatic.
The biggest regret of that time is maybe that Merckx and Hinault didn’t overlap more.
Merckx was better than the best of his day, and did things we may never see again. But the fields today are stronger -- *much* stronger -- than in his day, just as they are in all sports. They draw from a much bigger talent pool, including international riders, and even 2nd and 3rd tier riders are given top training, nutrition, and equipment. The last 5 years alone have seen huge changes in the depth and quality of fields, and those elder riders who have been around for that change say as much. Guys like Thomas, Bardet, Sagan, and others routinely note how much more power the current peloton rides at from km0.
I'm not dissing Merckx, just noting what I would about every major sport from football to basketball to swimming and beyond: today's athletes are bigger, faster, better trained, and are competing for more money against deeper fields than ever before.
Exactly! That is happened in tennis too⬆️
perfeita colocação.
English please!
Mercx was good rider of his day but as the old saying goes the 1 eyed man in the land of the blind is king. You cannot compare the 70,s to today different training and bikes and athletes are no where near a fat and overweight as they used to be .
You are 100% correct in what you say, but like the last two Tours de France where one of the favourites was injured in the run-up, effectively hampering their chances, you can only race who is there at the time, with whatever equipment, training, nutrition etc. While I live Pogacar and I do think he's the best, Merckx could only compete with the standard of competitor of the time. That's why we can't really compare I guess 🤷
Exactly. The favorite sport of many retired athletes is shitting on new generations because it makes them look better
In what way is he doing that then? I think you’re confusing him with more contemporary retirees.
I guarantee you: if I had been on his wheel, he would never have dropped me in my prime," de Vlaeminck said in words to Wielerrevue. "Never in his life!
"If Merckx were to race in the same Giro as Pogacar, Pogačar would be five minutes behind in the general classification."
In other words, Pogacar is a great rider and the best rider today, but I and my (de Vlaeminck's) generation were much better
👏🏻
No, you are extrapolating.
Firstly he said Pog wouldn’t have dropped him in his prime on SB
Then he said Merckx would beat him in the Giro, at no point did he say he was better but he does consider Merckx better and most people who didn’t start watching cycling in the last 10-15 agree.
That doesn’t mean Merckx was always better, would always win in every kind of race.
Now, if you want to compare something comparable ask Pog to ride an hour on a bike from then and we’ll see if he comes close to Merckx distance or even Moser’s (in fact, how often do they beat those speeds in their longer TTs with all the most sophisticated set-ups?), a guy who had great difficulty with beating DV
That’s the only way to take out equipment, money, teams, tech, etc from the equation. It still leaves training, knowledge, nutrition, data etc. which can make plenty of difference and should make today’s guys far faster in this test, ironically, without their TT or Track bike, Aero helmets, wheels and socks and dozens of other little advantages, they’re not so why are you so sure they’re actually better?
Fair point but he was 10kgs heavier, no chance he stays with Pogacar on the steep climbs
Merckx also had around 75kgs, there's absolutely no way that a rider this heavy can win a GT in modern era
Also, your next idea would make sense but Merckx/Moser have riden those bikes their entire life, for Pogi it would be the first time ever, and both were 10+ kilos heavier, you just can't compare that on a completely flat course (Remco being an exception)
And I'm not saying today's riders are that much better, however knowledge in all fields have advanced so much that they're closer to physical limits of what human body is capable of
Ok, so if Merckx or another had been alive today?
They’d have had access to all this too, so would have ridden far faster.
Yes they had 10kg more and still beat the shit out of most of the climbers who didn’t. And some of that weight would have been trimmed away with today’s knowledge wouldn’t it, it’s just at the time weight was considered slightly positive in some respects.
So what some here don’t get is when you compare one with the other, either you transpose the old guy into today’s world, or you transpose the new guy into the old one. You don’t take the new one on his world and compare to to old one in his world.
Honestly, do you really see Pogaçar winning everything against everyone when racing 130-140 days a year, keeping that level all year? He already cracked after two weeks of battling Jonas in the most important race at the peak of a normalish season. Maybe if you want to win more often you have to carry a couple of kg in reserve.
I agree that Merckx and his generation were much better. They for one did ride on worse roads with worse gear. Yes we have had the fastest TDF to date recently, but the fastest non TT stage was rode at blistering 50kph back in 1999!!!! That is incredibly fast, and has never been beaten, even with modern equippment. Yeah, they ride faster from km0. Nope! Not compared to 1999.
Concordo com você, é muita pretensão comparar atletas de épocas diferentes, é como falar do Pelé e todos os outros jogadores de futebol hoje, Pelé foi a frente do tempo dele e hoje com todo conhecimento difundindo mundialmente é quase impossível alguém conseguir se destacar tanto dos outros grandes atletas, o nível dos atletas é muito mais próximo um do outro. Um pouco mais de humildade faz bem .
Pélé and Football are not measurable, they are hardly quantitative or individual sports (and cycling these days, less and less).
Pogaçar’s career is young, he has a long way to go, anything can (and has happened (touch wood), I remind you of Senna.
If you look at sports in general, there are some people that stand out far after their era and for reason, in some aports it is easier to understand.
Ali, Phelps, Woods
In one it is really easy
Nurmi, Bubka, Duplantis, Bolt, Moses, Sotomayor (whose 19xx record still stands).
Some are old and last, some are pretty new but were/are way above their rivals.
Poga is not way above his rivals, his % win isn’t higher, his quantity isn’t higher and he hasn’t dominated anything so far, neither monuments or GTs or stage races, he wins what he enters regularly but there are others.
For the same success rate, Merckx could enter everything, Pog has to be quite selective and Jonas has to pick extremely carefully or in other words.
Jonas can only win very specific races with perfect preparation
Pog can win many races with perfect preparation
Merckx could win any race with perfect preparation.
Very true, some greats only won certain events but the real greats won across the board. Take F1 for example, in a good car many drivers can win races. It`s the drivers who can win races in a bad car that stand out, that is why Ayrton,Giles and Jimmy where light years ahead of the rest. Cycling is the same, the Pog is one of them like it or not.
If we accept Pog is because of that reasoning the MvdP is at least as across another board as him, he dominates cyclocross (162 wins 72,65%) way more than Pog dominates road racing, his total cycling Palmares is 244 wins 42%.
Tadej is 3,5 years younger but his career is only 2 years smaller and he comes up with a grand total of 70 wins and a win rate of around 30% it was lower in the beginning and higher now heading towards 35 in any year but his average will still be 30%.
I’m all for looking across the board but some then say, ah no, not cycling, only road cycling. That’s like, let’s look at football but ignore extra time and penalties.
Still, Merckx is waiting for them in the 540s
Então se for por esse lado, de ser mensurável ,todos os atletas hoje são melhores que Merckx, tem muito mais potencia e velocidade, acho que você nao entendeu meu ponto de vista, o que você nao colocou na equação foi a qualidade dos oponentes que se tem hoje, muitos são muitos bons. Volta a dizer, assim como o Mercks , o Pele estava a frente do seu tempo, mas hoje em dia em qualquer esporte você nao vai encontrar um Mercks ou um Pele, pois o treinamento de todos são muito parecidos e a grande maioria começa a treinar muito cedo(quando criança ainda) para o esporte que quer se dedicar . Então fica cada vez mais difícil se destacar como era antigamente. E Veja o esporte evoluiu bastante quando surge uma estrela assim, como Mercks, Pele ou Jordan hoje temos muitos jogadores que jogam parecido com Pele, parecido com Jordan e no caso do Mercks fez com que muitos atletas hoje seja muito bons por se espelhar em todo conhecimento que foi gerado por estudos em cima dele,o ciclismo evoluiu e isso faz com que meu argumento acima seja verdadeiro e valido. São 50 anos de diferença, veja qual esporte hoje tem alguem espetacular que é extraordinariamente melhor que todos os outros, nao existe esse esporte e no ciclismo é igual.
I’m rating Merckx lower because of his lack of MTB and BMX palmarès 😃
😆
There will never be another Merckx so we should stop comparing. He won 54 times in 1971 alone, out of 120 race days. Racing will never look like that again. That doesn’t mean Pogacar can’t win anything he tries to enter, but it does mean comparisons are impossible. Also, we kinda know Merckx was doping for the standards of his time, caught more than once, and in the modern age he would have been banned for years at a time. Again, we can’t compare.
Agreed
Sorry, I’m not going to read your whole text in brazilian when your first sentence already makes the huge mistake of saying all the current (best) riders are faster than Merckx. You have not been paying attention.
I will say it once more, of all the REALLY fastest riders ever who tried to beat Merckx under similar conditions, only 2 ever managed, 20-30 years later, and even then, they still had the advantage of carbon frames (compared to steel) and a few aero accessories and they could still only beat him by aTINY amount.
One of the 2 was Boardman, the guy who was able to smash the record several times on different bikes but not on the type allowed at the time of Merckx. How much clearer can it be that he was as fast as today’s guys with equivalent material?
You mean the late F1 driver Senna?
Pogacar is not the "GOAT". Merckx achieved the results Pogacar has now way before the age of 25, which Pogacar is right now. He won World Championships, 7 Monuments (not yet il Lombardia, that came with 26), 2 TDFrance, 2 Giro (both including points classification), 12 other small stage races, 6 other One day races and non monument classics, 2 European Track Madison. Like wtf.
Pogacar has not even half of that...
Interesting...