+2
08-10-2025 13:54
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08-10-2025 12:34
08-10-2025 12:00
08-10-2025 11:56
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08-10-2025 11:18
08-10-2025 11:04
08-10-2025 00:29
08-10-2025 00:12
08-10-2025 00:08
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+2
aramando
Well, at the risk of seeming like I simply must have the last word, heh, I would still just like to point out that lots of people have been convicted of war crimes in recent wars including those in Syria, Yemen, Sudan and Ukraine, and including Western personnel from Iraq & Afghanistan. So I don't dispute that they inevitably and sadly happen in every war, only that Israel is being unduly harshly criticised over theirs. What seems different is the extent to which there is a pattern, and evidence that it is not just rogue personnel but deliberate strategy from above, right up to the highest levels in some cases, plus the ample evidence of genocidal or ethnic cleansing intent (a key critieria) in statements by top level military and political figures. I mean they've basically openly admitted to breaking Geneva Convention articles around collective punishment and witholding food and water as a weapon of war - it's this kind of thing that gets top figures charged with war crimes instead of just "a few bad apples".08-10-2025 13:54
+3
aramando
@BM But you don't have any evidence that these bodies are predisposed to unfairly find against Israel in this matter. And even if they were, the fact is their arguments are laid out in detail with reams of supporting evidence and with reference to long-standing agreed definitions, so everyone can see their working. So they have made their case, with receipts. You have general, unfocused scepticism, which is probably a good thing in principle but which for some reason you're directing in one specific direction without basis. That's not sound reasoning.08-10-2025 12:34
+3
aramando
@BM So you're challenging the consensus reached by a professional body of relevant experts who have laid out the evidence based on... vibes and misguided whataboutery. I mean, for example, when have Palestinians been the victims of attempted ethnic cleansing by other Palestinians?08-10-2025 12:00
+3
aramando
Jrobins Both the UN and the IAGS used the definition from Article II of the 1948 UN Genocide Convention, with reference to addtional case law established by international law court hearings about previous genocides in the 1990s.08-10-2025 11:56
+4
aramando
BM, you need to look up the word hubris too. Under pressure from who? The US? 🙃 Have you actually read the IAGS report laying out their case, with evidence, supporting all 3 of the main criteria? Have you looked at them and considered whether the civil wars you mention could qualify on *all* counts? Scale or body count are not one of them, by the way. And no, Hamas ≠ Gazans either. Which planet did Hamas come from? Funny you should ask, because they came from an Islamist group that Israel nurtured & materially supported in the hope that their extremism would derail Palestinian statehood. Even relatively recently, while children's toys and "writing materials" were among items on the blockade list, Netanyahu knowingly allowed Qatari money to flow to them.08-10-2025 11:18
+4
aramando
It's all part of putting the pressure on Israel and its supporters and chipping away at the facade their propaganda has created to turn the tide of public opinion around the world. Can you directly trace things like this to material changes in Gazans' lives? No, but why do you think Trump has decided it's his pet project to try to win the Nobel Peace Prize by focusing his energy on a peace plan?08-10-2025 11:04
+3
aramando
"“hmmm, if these countries of the middle east really were concerned with human rights, how do they have people living like kings while their own citizens are treated inhumanely”. You've literally just described the rich vs poor (which of course strongly correlates with white vs black) divide in the USA. Sorry, but a moment of objectivity should let you accept this. Maybe read a little about what it's really like to be an Arab citizen of Israel, or for that matter a West Bank Palestinian living somewhere Israel decides they want to establish a new settlement (against international law). Sure, I would want to live almost anywhere other than Syria now or Saudi Arabia, but Lebanon and Jordan aren't even that far behind Israel in the human rights index. And yes, I deplore those who revel in events like 9/11, 10/7, the bombing of Gaza, etc, but honestly these things usually come (albeit misguidedly) from a place of legitimate grievance.08-10-2025 00:29
+4
aramando
Hamas ≠ Palestinians. October 7th does not justify Israel's actions in Gaza, just as Israel's blockade of Gaza (no toys or writing materials, really!?) and ongoing occupation of the West Bank with all the murder, dispossesion and human rights abuses that go with it do not justify October 7th. And that, among other reasons, is why the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the UN, and numerous other human rights orgs have concluded this is a genocide. It's also why a very clear majority of Europeans and EVEN AMERICANS (yes, proved by polls, not just guesswork and "vibes") don't believe Israel's actions are justified. Sorry, keyboard warriors, your lame whataboutery can't keep up.08-10-2025 00:12
+2
aramando
Presumably you'd tell members of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that they need to look up the word "genocide" too? I think you need to look up the word "hubris".08-10-2025 00:08